Part five in a series of republished interviews. Speaking of his experience in Japan not long after winning the Beijing Olympics marathon, Kenyan Samuel Wanjiru said, "Japanese people are conservative and don't like change." Well, sometimes things do change. In response to an invitation from race organizers interested in diversifying their elite field, the Honda and Yamada Denki corporate teams agreed to send three young runners to the 2010 Toronto Waterfront Marathon, two of them for their marathon debuts, with support from JRN.
Minoru Okuda (25, Honda) was a Hakone Ekiden star at Chuo University. Ayumi Nakayama (25, Yamada Denki) has four marathons, a best of 2:28:51 and bad luck with weather to her name. Just 22, Maki Suzawa (Yamada Denki) won the 2009 Miyazaki Women's Half Marathon, one of Japan's most competitive halves. At the time it was unusual to see so many Japanese corporate runners at an overseas marathon, particularly for their debuts. JRN talked to all three athletes before the race.
In university, Okuda, you were a star Hakone Ekiden runner, with a stage best on the 8th Stage as a sophomore, a narrow 3rd-place on the 1st Stage as a junior, and a turn on the ace 2nd stage as a senior. As a corporate runner you've continued to show that strength as an ekiden runner. Now you're facing your first marathon. Overseas when people think of Japanese distance runners they usually automatically think that equals the marathon. Not that many people know anything about ekidens, so they have that kind of image of Japanese runners. For yourself, did you always think, "I want to be a marathoner," or did you feel that the ekiden was more interesting?When I was in high school I wanted to become a marathoner. One of my teachers at that point told me, "You could be a good marathoner," so I felt very strongly that that was something I wanted to do. In university, though, the Hakone Ekiden is of course the main focus so you don't see many students run a marathon. I always wanted to do a marathon earlier but the ekiden was always there, and I love doing them. Up through high school I was always on relatively weak teams so I never really had the experience of doing well in an ekiden, but when I went to university I joined one of the strongest teams and got to feel how much fun an ekiden could really be.
If you're looking at Hakone then you're talking about stage lengths around 20 km, much shorter than a marathon, you know? I don't have much speed and was never really good over short distances, so I always felt like I wanted to go after the marathon and once I entered a jitsugyodan team I thought, "Let's do it." But, one thing led to another and I never had the chance, so having this opportunity to do my debut makes me very, very happy. Especially getting to do it overseas, it's a big honor. The biggest thing I've felt in terms of a difference from Japanese races is that everyone seems like they're having fun and enjoy being here. Both the officials and the athletes. The other runners are so friendly and have an attitude like, "Let's go out there, have a good time and run a good race." In Japan everyone and everything is so serious. Being here in Toronto lets me feel happy about doing my first marathon.
In Japan you've got the ekiden world and then the marathon world. For example, at Fukuoka last year there were virtually no elite Japanese men, but then less than a month later at the New Year Ekiden a lot of the big names like Atsushi Sato and the Fujiwaras had big runs. You haven't run a marathon yet, but as a jitsugyodan runner who has had some success at the ekiden do you feel like there is a problem there, a conflict between the ekiden and the marathon? Something along the lines of runners have to focus on ekidens so they can't do the necessary marathon training?
Well, if you compare to athletes overseas I think Japanese corporate runners have to race more. The big ekidens and marathons both come in the winter, but the training you have to do for them is totally different. From the point of view of the sponsoring companies, the ekidens are more important. If you want to do a marathon you certainly can, but you have to get in all the necessary training beforehand. I think if we could just focus on marathoning then the state of Japanese men's marathoning would be much stronger.
I think few people overseas realize that the ekiden is the main focus, not the marathon. The general perception of Japan seems to be that there are hundreds of guys doing full-on marathon training year-round.
Ekidens began in order for us to get stronger over the marathon distance, but the situation now is reversed and the ekiden has become the main event. Toshihiko Seko wrote about that in his book. I feel that it is a big problem for our future that we have to focus on ekiden training and can't put all our energy into marathon training.
In the last 10 years the level of running in the Hakone Ekiden and the university system as a whole has gone way up. So much so that you now hear people in the federation and elsewhere saying that Hakone is a major problem. Young athletes are more focused on success in the Hakone Ekiden than on the Olympics, World Championships, or an international career, and the training necessary for them to succeed is too much at too young an age.
I think that's exactly right. What has been surprising for me to see is how where in Japan we are doing a lot of mileage right from the start, foreign athletes do everything faster but with less mileage. Even the joggers I've seen around town here are going pretty fast. Fast pace, short distance. Japanese people do the opposite: slow pace, long distance. When you do the gasshuku intensive training camps, people overseas might be doing two workouts a day, one in the morning and one in the evening, but Japanese runners are running three times a day, morning, afternoon and evening. It's too much, don't you think?
Toronto will be your marathon debut, which means you've had to do your first-ever round of marathon training through the peak of the Japanese summer. Could you talk about your training for your debut? How would you compare what you've done to get ready for the major ekidens in the past and your preparations this time?
Well, the amount I did in one workout was totally different. The most I'd run in ekiden training was 30 km, but for the marathon I of course took it up to 40. In ekiden training the day after a workout like that was usually free whereas in getting ready for Toronto I did for example 5000 m times four the day after running 40 km. It was really tough.
In Japan the elite marathons usually have an almost entirely Japanese field with just a few hand-picked top foreigners. Here it's the opposite: lots of international people and you are the only Japanese man. What do you think about being in this kind of situation?
I think it's great. The variety of people is so much more than in a Japanese race. In Japanese races every detail is very formal. Pre-race you must do this, this and this. All the Japanese runners follow the same protocol and run the same kind of race. If the pace is off or the conditions are off and the splits don't turn out the way they are expected to then everyone gets nervous and loses confidence. In a race like this one here in Toronto you see people from all over the place doing things in different ways, different kinds of drills and warmups, different attitudes, and it lets me think, "Hey, I can do this the way that feels right to me too." I can feel that it's OK that I had a week there this summer where my training was off, that it wasn't the end of the world and that I can still have a good race. People from elsewhere aren't fixated on doing things according to a checklist, so it's OK if I'm not.
Looking at your own race, it's now the evening before your first marathon. How do you feel about it at this stage?
I'm completely relaxed. I'm not over-thinking it or getting nervous. If I think too much about a race I always start thinking bad thoughts, so I just want to be empty, calm and relaxed.
Looking at your preparations, the course, the weather and the competition, what do you expect to run?
At the very least I want to break 2:15. If everything goes 100% I think I could manage right around 2:12 flat, but I don't know, there are a lot of variables. The wind is my biggest worry. When I ran today the wind was very strong, and I don't think that's what you want for a marathon. When I ran 40 km in training I thought that if the weather was good I'd be able to do better than I planned, but when the weather is bad your time is much slower. I think it'll turn out to be a good day, though.
Turning to you, Nakayama, this is your fifth marathon but your first race overseas.That's right. Compared to the races I've done so far the whole experience has been pretty different. Dealing with the time zone difference, the race atmosphere, etc., part of the challenge will be to see whether I can bring my best performance. But more than that there is just so much that is new for me. A race that starts at 7:30 in the morning--there aren't any of those in Japan! And of course since we're in a foreign country the food is what the local people eat so it's unfamiliar to me.
Altogether I've been able to see that you have to plan a lot more when you race overseas than when you run a domestic race and that you can't be focused on thinking, "I have to do this, this and this the way I always do them." You have to be flexible and adjust to the demands of the situation in order to be successful. I don't have pre-race jitters today about how I'm going to do or anything, I'm just excited about it and looking forward to running with an international field. Japanese people usually feel a lot of pressure in this kind of situation but I'm looking at it as a chance to run a good race while dealing with a lot of unfamiliar factors.
So far you've run the Osaka International Women's Marathon twice and the Nagoya International Women's Marathon twice. How would you compare the atmosphere here in Toronto to the elite Japanese marathons?
The overall atmosphere is totally different. The elite Japanese races are usually selection events for national teams and the fields are usually made up just of Japanese runners with a few foreigners. Usually really fast ones, going up against the best Japanese athletes. It's not a situation where the foreigners have a guaranteed win. Now that I say that, though, I guess in that context, everyone having an equal chance, I think a race like Toronto is similar to Japanese races.
Suzawa, you are debuting at a young age, only 22. Up to now you've shown a lot of strength at the half marathon, with a 1:10 PB and a win at the Miyazaki Women's Half Marathon. With 12 hours to go until your first marathon what are you thinking?My recent half marathons haven't been any good but I still understand that the marathon is something completely different, and not just that it's twice the distance. I've won a half and run fast in them but I think the marathon is a different world. I'm nervous about whether I can really cover the whole distance, kind of jumpy now that it's the day before the race.
Compared to your training when you've run well in half marathons, track races and ekidens, what was different in your training for your first marathon?
The most basic difference has been more distance. Longer distance, less speedwork. Doing 30 km and 40 km runs gave me a real sense for how important the distance aspect is. I had only ever run up to 30 km before, but this time in Sugadaira I did my first 40 km run. It was slow, but I covered the distance. It took about 2 hours 50 minutes, but it still gave me a sense of what it means to run that far and of how hard is to run even faster for the full 42.195 km. I felt even deeper respect for the people who race marathons.
Did you both always want to become marathoners right from when you started running?
Nakayama: When I joined a jitsugyodan team I thought, "Well, let's just do ekidens," but my coach told me that I had some potential in the marathon and that got me thinking about going in that direction. My main motivation, though is that if you run the marathon then you get a chance to go up against top-class foreign competition and to race around the world. More than especially liking the longer distances, that chance to compete at the highest level is why I'm running marathons.
Suzawa: I wanted to become a jitsugyodan runner ever since I was in junior high school. Right at the end of elementary school I watched Naoko Takahashi win the gold medal in the Sydney Olympics, and after that I wanted to join a jitsugyodan team and do it all, track, ekiden, marathons, all of it, with everything I have. I've felt that way ever since I was young. I still have that dream inside me, and for me tomorrow is a big step toward making it come true.
Along with Takahashi, Japanese women have a 20 year legacy of World Championships and Olympic medals. More so than the men, when Japanese women show up at a race overseas they get attention from the other athletes. Do you feel any connection to, inspiration or pressure from that legacy?Nakayama: Yes, it gives me something to shoot for. It looks like it would be fun to compete at that kind of level. Of course the marathon is tough, but if I could reach that level I think it would be a lot of fun, something that would make me think, "I'm glad I did all of this," when I look back at everything I put into it. That's the inspiration I feel.
Last month I visited your training camp in Sugadaira and watched one of Ayumi's 30 km runs. What can you say about your training for Toronto?
Compared to the training I've done for other marathons up to now I think this is the best I've been able to put everything together. But at the same I still don't really understand what kind of training you need to do if you are targeting a particular level, so in that respect I'm not entirely confident that I've done what I need to in order to reach my target in Toronto. I've had to adjust my thinking to look at this one more as, "What level can I reach with the training I've done?" That's the main difference this time.
This is the first time you've trained for a marathon through the summer, isn't it?
Yeah, it was tough, running long distance through the summer heat. Even in Hokkaido it was so hot. I've only ever done marathon training in the winter before. More than the usual fatigue from dealing with the distance, coping with the heat was the main challenge this time. I could really see how hard it is to run a summer race.
In the past you've both run races where the field is made up a good number of fast Japanese women along with a few foreign competitors, but tomorrow there will be athletes from all over the world and the two of you. What kind of race do you expect?
Nakayama: Yeah, what kind of race.....I think I will probably be seeing how long I can hang on, and then in the second half how many foreigners I can pick off one by one. (laughs) I'd like to be moving up through the field over the last part of the race.
Suzawa: I think if you look at results from around the world, the area where Japanese women are most internationally competitive is in the marathon. Track racing takes a lot of speed, but even though in the last 10 years the marathon has also become more of a speed race I think it's where we're the strongest. Ever since I was young it has been my dream to race around the world in the marathon, so I want to make the most of this chance. I haven't been feeling right for a while so I can't really say that my training has been ideal since I've only done one 30 km and one 40 km run and not much high-quality speedwork, but I know that this chance to run in a wonderful place like Toronto is the link to the next stage for me and I want to do everything I can to deliver on the promise that link offers.
© 2010 Brett Larner, all rights reserved
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